Official Religion Debate Thread

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We have free will, he created us, we decide what to do with our lives, and he happens to know what we choose. Although predestination is a lot more interesting and troubling to me as opposed to that simple question logistic :p

We have free will, he created us, we decide what to do with our lives, and he happens to know what we choose. Although predestination is a lot more interesting and troubling to me as opposed to that simple question logistic :p

that still makes absolutely no sense, what so ever. ok, he gave us free will....BUT, he knows what we are going to choose. why would he create murderers, just to send them to hell? because he already knows that they are going to kill. its dumb.

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We have free will, he created us, we decide what to do with our lives, and he happens to know what we choose. Although predestination is a lot more interesting and troubling to me as opposed to that simple question logistic :p

that still makes absolutely no sense, what so ever. ok, he gave us free will....BUT, he knows what we are going to choose. why would he create murderers, just to send them to hell? because he already knows that they are going to kill. its dumb.

Well it makes sense to me, the point is you have free will, and then he knows what you'll do. But if he decided not to create someone just because they are going to hell then we wouldn't have free will. Same answer as to why people ask why God sends people to hell, if he didn't then we wouldn't have free will and we would all be uncharacteristic robots

We have free will, he created us, we decide what to do with our lives, and he happens to know what we choose. Although predestination is a lot more interesting and troubling to me as opposed to that simple question logistic :p

that still makes absolutely no sense, what so ever. ok, he gave us free will....BUT, he knows what we are going to choose. why would he create murderers, just to send them to hell? because he already knows that they are going to kill. its dumb.

Well it makes sense to me, the point is you have free will, and then he knows what you'll do. But if he decided not to create someone just because they are going to hell then we wouldn't have free will. Same answer as to why people ask why God sends people to hell, if he didn't then we wouldn't have free will and we would all be uncharacteristic robots

i think its bogus ^.^. to me, this shows a sadistic side to "god".


but then again, this is coming from the bible, which has many problems.

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We have free will, he created us, we decide what to do with our lives, and he happens to know what we choose. Although predestination is a lot more interesting and troubling to me as opposed to that simple question logistic :p

that still makes absolutely no sense, what so ever. ok, he gave us free will....BUT, he knows what we are going to choose. why would he create murderers, just to send them to hell? because he already knows that they are going to kill. its dumb.

Well it makes sense to me, the point is you have free will, and then he knows what you'll do. But if he decided not to create someone just because they are going to hell then we wouldn't have free will. Same answer as to why people ask why God sends people to hell, if he didn't then we wouldn't have free will and we would all be uncharacteristic robots

i think its bogus ^.^. to me, this shows a sadistic side to "god".


but then again, this is coming from the bible, which has many problems.

How is giving someone free will sadistic? I'd rather have the choice to believe something then live a life that I have no choice in. If he felt pleasure in hurting people wouldn't he rather control peoples lives as opposed to letting you do what you want?

On a side note, I hope you aren't like the stereotypical agnostic that is disrespectful and insults someone who believes something different then themselves. Just sayin :p

Atheist* But I dunno know your believes, so whichever one fits you.

We have free will, he created us, we decide what to do with our lives, and he happens to know what we choose. Although predestination is a lot more interesting and troubling to me as opposed to that simple question logistic :p

that still makes absolutely no sense, what so ever. ok, he gave us free will....BUT, he knows what we are going to choose. why would he create murderers, just to send them to hell? because he already knows that they are going to kill. its dumb.

Well it makes sense to me, the point is you have free will, and then he knows what you'll do. But if he decided not to create someone just because they are going to hell then we wouldn't have free will. Same answer as to why people ask why God sends people to hell, if he didn't then we wouldn't have free will and we would all be uncharacteristic robots

i think its bogus ^.^. to me, this shows a sadistic side to "god".


but then again, this is coming from the bible, which has many problems.

How is giving someone free will sadistic? I'd rather have the choice to believe something then live a life that I have no choice in. If he felt pleasure in hurting people wouldn't he rather control peoples lives as opposed to letting you do what you want?

On a side note, I hope you aren't like the stereotypical agnostic that is disrespectful and insults someone who believes something different then themselves. Just sayin :p

well im not agnostic for one. i dont believe in any religion OR group associated with religion (meaning im not athiest either), i just want to be classified as a human, thats it. and at what point was i bein rude? XD, i was doin the same that you were doing, stating my beliefs.

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Hey I corrected my statement before you replied! I was just asking that now as opposed to finding out later, usually when someone adds something negative (from the other persons standpoint) onto their reply that wasn't necessary to their argument it sometimes means they are trying to be disrespectful and look down on someone. At least that's what I see, that's why I went ahead and simply asked, I wasn't trying to be negative myself either though when I asked that.

Hey I corrected my statement before you replied! I was just asking that now as opposed to finding out later, usually when someone adds something negative (from the other persons standpoint) onto their reply that wasn't necessary to their argument it sometimes means they are trying to be disrespectful and look down on someone. At least that's what I see, that's why I went ahead and simply asked, I wasn't trying to be negative myself either though when I asked that.

o ok. its all good. and happy 100th post to me! yay me!

This keeps coming up and Logistic mentioned something which makes me think of this paradox.

God sees all and knows all. It is said that he even knows what we are going to do before it is done, how many people will go to heaven and only god knows the day and the hour that Jesus will make his glorious return (Matthew 24:36) It seems there is a divine plan or destiny being described here.

So if god knows all that; do we really have "free will"? If god knows all that has been is and ever will be, how can anyone have free will?

Jesus predicted that Judas would betray him John (6:70). Despite knowing this, Judas did just that betrayed Jesus.
If you were going to commit a crime but someone called the cops before you committed the crime would you do the crime anyways? NO. You would change your plans at the very least to make it seem like the person that ratted you out was wrong.
Peter was also powerless to exercise his "free will"(Mark 14:72).

So bottom line

You can't have free will and believe in destiny at the same time. It's impossible.

This keeps coming up and Logistic mentioned something which makes me think of this paradox.

God sees all and knows all. It is said that he even knows what we are going to do before it is done, how many people will go to heaven and only god knows the day and the hour that Jesus will make his glorious return (Matthew 24:36) It seems there is a divine plan or destiny being described here.

So if god knows all that; do we really have "free will"? If god knows all that has been is and ever will be, how can anyone have free will?

Jesus predicted that Judas would betray him John (6:70). Despite knowing this, Judas did just that betrayed Jesus.
If you were going to commit a crime but someone called the cops before you committed the crime would you do the crime anyways? NO. You would change your plans at the very least to make it seem like the person that ratted you out was wrong.
Peter was also powerless to exercise his "free will"(Mark 14:72).

So bottom line

You can't have free will and believe in destiny at the same time. It's impossible.

exactly. its like making a robot, programing its cpu, but then saying that it has free will. (not entirely, but you can see what i mean)

Praise jesus

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Well the way I see it is that he knows what will happen, it isn't that he told us what to do, and he can't change what will happen because then we wouldn't have free will. I think he knows what we will do because he is outside of "time" in a sense. Like a dude told me its similar to how if we are watching a parade we only see the parade as it is coming through, one block at a time while God can look say, from a helicopter and see the whole parade. Not sure if that helps anyone else, but it seems sensible to me that he can know what we will do without interfering with it because obviously if he "made" us do something it wouldn't be free will. I dunno know how else to really explain it other then he knows what we will do because from his view of "time" we have already done it, but we chose to do it. But I don't think there is a destiny in a sense that God chose what will happen in our lives, but that God knows already what will happen. Yea, if he made our destiny himself then we wouldn't have free will so he hasn't made our destiny. We make our own destiny and he just knows what we choose to do with it because he is outside of our sense of time.

The more you try to make sense of it the more it seems like a dog chasing his tail but simply put we choose what we will do in our lives, and God knows what we will choose but we have free will otherwise if we didn't have free will and since God knows what will happen he would correct our lives and allow us all to go to Heaven makes sense to me Based off that, I believe we make our own destiny, God just happens to know what we make as our destiny.

I suppose thats why I believe it and yall don't though :p Whole reason I believe this stuff, it makes sense to me and everything else I have tried to understand doesn't.

Or you could say like, you know when you put food in your dog's dog bowl that he will walk over and eat from it. You aren't making the dog do it, and ultimately the dog decides to eat from it. I know that's pretty elementary and has you could argue about it but it's the best example I could come up with after reading logistics example lol.

Praise jesus

XD

and theres nothing wrong with that ace, believe what you wish.

We are having a debate as the thread title implies. This isn't arguing or whose right or wrong.

Well the way I see it is that he knows what will happen, it isn't that he told us what to do, and he can't change what will happen because then we wouldn't have free will.

But wait, God knows what will happen, but can't change the outcome? So if god can't change the outcome how could we? If God can't change outcomes; why do people bother to pray?

The more you try to make sense of it the more it seems like a dog chasing his tail but simply put we choose what we will do in our lives, and God knows what we will choose but we have free will otherwise

At this point it seems you have described that free will is an illusion since God knows what we will choose but we think we are making a choice when in reality we aren't since we can't ever surprise God with our decisions.

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We are having a debate as the thread title implies. This isn't arguing or whose right or wrong.

Well the way I see it is that he knows what will happen, it isn't that he told us what to do, and he can't change what will happen because then we wouldn't have free will.

But wait, God knows what will happen, but can't change the outcome? So if god can't change the outcome how could we? If God can't change outcomes; why do people bother to pray?

The more you try to make sense of it the more it seems like a dog chasing his tail but simply put we choose what we will do in our lives, and God knows what we will choose but we have free will otherwise

At this point it seems you have described that free will is an illusion since God knows what we will choose but we think we are making a choice when in reality we aren't since we can't ever surprise God with our decisions.

^Thats cool, I'm just stating my opinion anyways, this is a subject that is interesting anyways :p

Well I didn't mean that he can't change the outcome, I know I said that but since we have free will, God won't change the outcome because then we wouldn't have free will.

And I don't think it's an illusion, or at least I didn't mean to imply that. I really am not sure how else to explain it, maybe someone else can interject a better example or explanation of what I'm trying to say. We choose what we want to decide about our inception (obviously) but since God is outside of time in a sense, he knows what we decide to choose. Just because he knows what we decide to choose doesn't mean he decides for us.